Professor Gordon A. Gillespie
Former Athletic Director and Coach, Lewis University
Interview: July 15, 2010
Br: Br. Bernard Rapp, interviewer
Br: So, would you like to start…
Gordie: Well, in going through the outline that you were so kind to send to me, Brother…I’ll start with my early days. I’m a Chicago guy, and very proud of that. We came through the depression on the northwest side of Chicago…
Br: So you were probably a Cubs fan?
I was Cubs fan; I was born and raised not too far from Cubs Park, so I can remember so many wonderful things about the Cubs. I first got the mentality – I was born in ’26 – so I got the mentality to follow baseball early on. I think it was in 1932 that famous incident of Babe Ruth pointing the bat; the Cubs lost that game 7-5. I don’t remember listening to the game so much but sort of picking it up from people talking about it – the Babe – did he point? didn’t he point? And I picked up some of the names that were with the Cubs at that time: Charlie Root, some of the pitchers, some of the players. And in ’35 I was still in grammar school when the Cubs won the pennant again. They lost to the Detroit Tigers 4 games to 2 in the World Series. I’ll never forget the last game when the Cubs’ third baseman – they called him Smiling Stan Hack – he tripled to open the 9th inning, the Cubs were down one run but we couldn’t score and we ended up losing. And in ’38 the Cubs won the pennant again. At that time I was in 7th grade at a public school called Lloyd elementary school which was on the northwest side. They lost the series in four straight. That was the year we picked up Dizzy Dean whose arm was dead. He was a great fast ball pitcher. He came over to the Cubs and won seven straight games throwing “nothing balls.” And in the second game of the World Series with the Yankees – he pitched a great game – and I think it was in the 8th inning with the Cubs ahead. (I was allowed to stay home from school to attend that game.) So I’ll never forget Dizzy losing the game on a homerun. That was the year the Cubs won 21 straight to go ahead of Pittsburgh and when Gabby Hartnett hit the famous homerun – as they stay – in the dark; 11thinning, no lights at Wrigley Field. Thay won the game; they won the pennant but they couldn’t win the World Series. In ’45 they lost 4 games to 3. Those are some of the memories of those days.
I went to Kelvyn Park High School in Chicago; a public school. (I wasn’t a Catholic in those days. I converted to Catholicism later on in my life.) We won the Public League Basketball Championship in ’43 and ended up playing in the very first Catholic-Public basketball game that was ever played [in Chicago]. The Catholic-Public football games started in ’39 at Soldier Field. I think it was Fenwick High School versus Austin. They drew 103,000 people for the game. We were playing in the first basketball game – the lightweights, 5’8″ and under – Marshall was playing Mt. Carmel. Marshall, the public school, had won 88 straight. And Kelvyn Park was playing Mt. Carmel’s heavyweights. We had won 22 straight before losing downstate. We had gone further than any other Chicago public school in the State Tournament before getting eliminated.
Br: So you were a basketball player?
I played basketball and baseball at Kelvyn Park. I was probably the worst basketball player in the history of Chicago as a freshman, sophomore, and junior. Believe me, I was terrible. My nickname was “Bones.” I weighed about 145 pounds on a 6’4” frame – if you’d open the door I’d be blown over by the wind coming through the gym. But, fortunately, I had a great coach named Phil Brownstein who stuck with me and worked with me. (Brownstein went on to coach the Chicago Stags for a brief period of time. Now they’re the Chicago Bulls. That’s how good of a coach he was.) Consequently, I developed into a pretty good basketball player. I played well in my senior year. And because I had skipped a half-grade – I was only 17, the World War II had been going on for at least two years – I was too young to go into the Service. So I played one year at the U of I (Champaign). I was there only one year and I played basketball and baseball. That was ’43-’44 school year. Played for Doug Mills who started his career here in Joliet as a high school coach. He went on to coach at the University of Illinois. Doug Mills won the only State Championship that Joliet Public High School ever won. He left here to go to Illinois as the Athletic Director and basketball coach. And when I went to Illinois I was fortunate to play for Doug and then I played baseball for a fellow named Wally Roettger. Wally played professionally; he had been an outfielder with the St. Louis Cardinals and he played in the World Series in 1930. He would often say that the highlight of his whole career was that he went 6 for 14 in the Series off of Bob “Lefty” Grove [Philadelphia Athletics] – he would only play against left-hand pitching. So I had great coaches, both high school and college.
After I finished my year at Illinois I enlisted in the Navy in the summer of ’44. The Navy kept me at Great Lakes Naval Station. I played for an All-American player and a great coach, [Forrest A.] “Fordy” Anderson. He went on to coach at Michigan State. And before that he coached at Bradley. He won the National Championship there before going on the Michigan State where he won another one. Just a marvelous guy. So, as far as I am concerned, I probably played for the greatest coaches of all time.
Br: So when you went to Illinois did you have any plans for your future?
Well, my whole idea as I was going through the public school system in Chicago – I was younger than most the kids because of that promotion in grammar school – so I tried to get a job. But jobs were not plentiful at that time; then the war came and I was still trying to get a job in the summer time, but it was difficult because I was only 16. I was fortunate in a sense because I was young and I could continue my education, but I was also thinking, “What do you want to do?”. I was a fairly good student, but in those times with the war on, everything was sort of hazy. All my friends were graduating and going right into the service. I had to wait and go to school for one year. So I had to decide what I wanted to study. I told my high school coach that I wanted to coach and teach like him. It was Brownstein. So he suggested that I take Physical Education and go from there. And that’s what I did. So I had decided at that time that this is what I wanted to do. I took a Physical Education major and after coming out of the Navy I transferred to DePaul University. I was going with a young lady that I became engaged to. And I played my last three years at DePaul. That was ’46 through ’49. That’s when I played for Ray Meyer. A St. Patrick’s [High School] boy. One of the great – again, I played for four or five of the greatest basketball coaches of all time. And my baseball coach, Wally Roettger, was as good they come.
Br: You finished up college at DePaul?
I finished at DePaul in 1949. And in ’53 I was at Lewis.
Br: Yes, how did you ever find out about Lewis?
Well, while I was at DePaul on the GI Bill, I was working part-time. I was married in ’47. My wife was pregnant in ’49. So I was working part-time at the community center in gym work, and classes, and teaching kids basketball, and what have you. So I’m attending DePaul, playing collegiate basketball, and working part-time. I’d leave the house at 6 a.m. and get home around midnight. It was a case of doing what you had to. I don’t think I ever missed a class; I couldn’t afford to. When I graduated in ’49, there were no real job openings. But Ray [Meyer] heard of a job opening out in Joliet. He told me that the CYO [Catholic Youth Organization] was open out there – they wanted to start an athletic program. So Coach Meyer loaned me his ’38 Buick – I’d driven about twice in my life at that point – believe me, I was petrified. I didn’t even know how to turn the lights on and off. But I got the job as CYO Athletic Director. I worked for a fellow named Father O’Keefe here in Joliet. So I stayed with that job. And I used to go over to Joliet Catholic High School. There was a coach there by the name of Bob White. He asked me to lend a hand with the basketball program. So I’d go over and help him with anything he want me to do. Well, it so happened in the spring of 1950 Bob had an opportunity to return to his alma mater, the University of Arizona, as an assistant coach. Then Fr. Bonaventure, the principal at Catholic Central, called me and said, “I see you around the school, helping out and coaching. And the kids have some nice things to say about you; that you help them. Would you like to come in and interview for Mr. White’s job?” Well that’s what I wanted to do – to work in education. I’d be the head basketball coach, I would teach physical ed classes, and I would assist in football. So I got the job. I was making $4,100 with the CYO. I had the wife and the baby and we had a little bungalow that I had put $500 down on – the house cost $7,500; it was a nice brick house. Times have changed! But I left the CYO, went to Joliet Catholic and went to work for Fr. Bonaventure and the Carmelites for a total of $3,000.
The following year I was in the basketball program and I got a call from Fr. [John] Brennan who was the Athletic Director at Lewis College. He asked if I could come out and referee that night. I had my referee certificate, so I agreed. This was in the old gym {the current Lewis Memorial Student Union} which was about 42′ by 86′ a few feet shy of what it should have been both in width and length. So I’d referee out there. Scooter McLean, who was the football coach and former Bears player who I had watched play in Chicago, asked me to come out and help him with the Lewis basketball program. He said, “I’ll arrange the practices so that when you’re finished at Joliet Catholic, if you want to come out we can get a few dollars together for you. If you could just give me some tips and help me run the basketball, it would be great.” So I agreed to that. So I would try to get out there two or three nights a week – a part-time job, and I’d help Fr. Brennan and Scooter. The following year Scooter left to go to the Green Bay Packers. Then Fr. Brennan asked if I could come out and help him coach the basketball team. He arranged the practices in the evening from 7 to 9, because my Catholic High classes were in the afternoon. So I would go out in the evenings, but I told Father that there would be some nights when I wouldn’t be able to be at the game, especially when it traveled. He was OK with that. I got to the home games if they didn’t conflict with Joliet Catholic. So I was actually involved with two programs.
Then going into the 1953 [academic] year, Father asked if I would leave Joliet Catholic and come to Lewis full time. Well, I had become football coach at Joliet Catholic [along with the basketball]. The coach, Phil Cantwell, really liked me. I was assisting him in football. I was getting a lot of my football information from the football coach at Lewis, Jim “Red” McCarthy. {Ray “Scooter” McLean coached football from 1948-1951; Bernie Masterson, 1951-1952; James “Red” McCathy, 1952-1957. The very first team was coached by Henry M. Fallon, 1947-1948.} Jim was an outstanding coach; he was the captain of the Illinois team when he played. He had a line coach named Leo Cahill, who was an All-American lineman at Illinois. They were in the Rose Bowl – I think it was in ’48 or ’49. So Leo was the assistant, and Red was the head coach who was captain of the Illinois team under Ray Eliot. So I had a resource of football…I was taking the stuff that Red and Leo would be showing me – I didn’t have any football background outside of being very interested in the game. They were teaching me; I was taking a lot of the things down to Joliet Catholic High. We had a fellow that replaced Phil Cantwell. (Phil had an unbeaten season; he was from California. He went back there.) We had a great running back from Notre Dame come in to take his place. His name was Ernie Zaleski. He became the head coach at Joliet Catholic. He asked if I would stay on part-time and come over during the fall football season. I had to go back and ask Fr. Brennan if I could do that. Father Brennan says, “They let you come over here; the least we can do is turn it around and let you do that in the fall.” They were going to give me $1500 part-time – which was a lot of money for us at that time. So I continued to grow in my knowledge of football. Ernie had me coach the defense. Well, I was getting so much information from Jim McCarthy who got it from Ray Eliot. So in the years that we had football at Lewis I got a ton of information on defense as well as offense. {Lewis terminated the football program in 1957.} If it weren’t for Red and Leo I couldn’t have contributed anything [as Joliet Catholic assistant football coach]. I really learned football in working with these guys and working with Ernie on a part-time basis. So it switched the roles. I went from full time at Catholic High and part-time at Lewis to full time at Lewis to part-time at Catholic High. Both Catholic schools; what was good about that is that as we were starting the baseball program [at Lewis] I was able to get over half of the baseball team from Joliet Catholic. I had 13 Catholic High players out of 25 somewhere around 1959, ’60.
Br: You started the Baseball Program?
I started the Baseball Program. We built the field the field in ’54. We built it by hand. The Lettermen’s Club. We started the L Club. I told the guys, “I came from a high school that had a wonderful club. We called it the K Club – Kelvyn Park. They did so much good for the school. Would you fellows like to have an organization like that? We’ll meet once a week. We’ll have a nickel dues a week. And whatever money we have we’ll put into our projects.” One of those projects was the building of the present baseball field as it sits right down there now. That field was built by the kids and myself – Brennan Field. We named it after Father Brennan; that’s the story on that.
I’d say we start playing the home games there in ’55. We started with a 15-game schedule and then it went on and up. And every guy on the team – I didn’t recruit any players on the first squad – they were all football players or basketball players who wanted to play baseball in the spring. So we got – maybe the most we got was a 20-grame schedule – but that got it going. Then from there Lewis went on to become more and more of a baseball power. By the time it got to the ’60s we were one of the better clubs around the Chicago area.
Br: At that time was that the Midlands Conference?
The baseball conference that we were in was not the Midlands Conference. Midlands was for football and basketball. It was the Chicagoland Baseball Conference. That included the University of Illinois, Chicago University, Aurora College, Illinois Tech, and Lewis. I think it was those five initial schools. We played Great Lakes but it was only exhibition; they weren’t in the Conference. (Even now, our conference here at St. Francis is still called the Chicagoland.)
But with the start of the baseball program it was natural for me to start recruiting kids from Joliet Catholic because I was still working there part-time, coaching football. In ’59 Ernie Zaleski, the Joliet Catholic football coach – he had played professional football with the Baltimore Colts previous to coming to Joliet Catholic – he left to take a job with the Government. Then the school approached me about being head coach of the high school football team. Well I had to go back again to Fr. Brennan. He wanted to know how much time I would miss at Lewis. I said, “Father, there’s going to be just a little bit of overlapping, but I’ll have the basketball practice in the evening; when football ends at the high school then I’ll run the practices in the afternoon.”
Br: So you were coaching basketball and baseball at Lewis at that time.
That’s right. I was doing three things: basketball and baseball at Lewis and football at Joliet Catholic. So from ’59 through ’85 I was the head football coach at Catholic High. And I had to teach two classes in the morning because it was an Illinois State regulation that coaches also teach academic subjects. I think the first class started around 8 o’clock in the morning – I had the first two PE classes – taught those; went out to Lewis; came back in from Lewis for football practice which started around 3 o’clock at public park; then, if I had to go back out to Lewis, I’d go back in the evening. There was an overlap of about three weeks where I’d be doing the basketball at night and the football in the afternoon. It stayed that way until finally – Oh, I don’t recall what year I quit coaching basketball at Lewis – I had the Athletic Directorship and we had started an expansion of our athletic programs at Lewis. We began Track & Field, the Women’s Program, Wrestling – we started a lot of things – and the Athletic Director’s job was humongous. Plus, the baseball program had gotten to be one of the premier programs in the region with us winning the National Championship in ’74, ’75, and ’76.
Br: Yes. I’d like to ask you something about that. When did we get into the NAIA [National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics]?
We got into the NAIA around 1954. The NAIA was the national association which is still going today. St. Francis University is a member. We stayed NAIA as long as I was at Lewis. I left Lewis in ’76. We had won the NAIA National Baseball Championship three consecutive years. After I left, Lewis stayed NAIA for a while and then they decided they were go – a lot of schools were leaving the NAIA and joining the NCAA [National Collegiate Athletic Association]. Now if you go back to the history of that – I was angry about that because in the ’50s and ’60s there was no organization for a lot of schools. Just two examples: Illinois State was an NAIA school, Northern Illinois University was NAIA – either you were big, NCAA (there were no divisions, I, II, III; everybody was I) or small, NAIA. The beauty of all this was that when I was teaching and coaching and administrating at Lewis, we could play anybody. In basketball we played Notre Dame at their campus; we played DePaul at DePaul, we played Loyola – there was no discrimination. It was just a matter if they wanted to play us. I remember playing at Notre Dame. It was one of their great teams, John Dee was the coach. This would probably be in the early ’60s. On their court we were ahead by 12 points with about 5 minutes to go. Little Lewis. And the referees – one of the refs happened to be a friend of mine – had played center for Loyola – his name was Jack Kerris – he was refereeing the game. They put the whistles in their mouths and never blew ‘em. We had two guards, Tony Delgado, who just retired from coaching here, and a kid named Billy Pauls, who was out of Mt. Carmel in Chicago. You couldn’t steal the ball from those guys in a hundred years. They were practically tackling our guys and Notre Dame won by a point or two. I walked off the court with Jack; “Jack, you and I have played together since Kelvyn Park.” (We knew each other well. He played at Loyola; I played at DePaul. That was the biggest rivalry.) “We guarded together in high school; in college we were friendly enemies. How come you did what you did tonight?” Jack says, “You weren’t supposed to win at Notre Dame.” And he walks into the locker room.
When Kerris was playing for Loyola they upset Kentucky for the National Championship – the NIT [National Invitational Tournament] – that was the year that Kentucky was shaving points. There were three guys on the team, Alex Groza, Ralph Beard, and Dale Barnstable. We played them twice each year that I was sophomore, junior, senior when I played for Ray Meyer. I played against them six times. They wouldn’t toss the game, but they were keeping the game within a point spread. Like they were 10 point favorites, so “we’ll only win by only 8 tonight.” So they would try to keep the point spread. I suspected something screwy my senior year. Well, it came out. In the tournament they were trying to control the Loyola game. They were heavy favorites, championship game, New York City. And Jack Kerris, this great center was playing for Loyola. And they had a good club. So they [Kentucky] were going to keep the game close and win by a certain amount of points. The game got away from them. And Kerris, who was a great hook-shot – right-hand, left-hand – and he could throw it from 15 feet, he was deadly. He gets red hot, and they ended up beating Kentucky. Well a few months later – I think this is in the ’49 season – it comes out that they were controlling the game. Three of the starters; two guys didn’t know what was going on – the three biggest scorers. It came out in all of the papers. It was announced on the Kentucky campus in a full gymnasium that these three players would never be allowed on the Kentucky campus ever again. Groza’s brother was a great kicker for the Cleveland Browns. But Alex coached at Bellarmine after that. I was coaching at Lewis. We ended up coaching against each other. They gave him another chance in life.
Br: When you became Athletic Director at Lewis?
Father Brennan was Athletic Director and Campus Chaplain. He told me he just didn’t have the time for both anymore. So in the late ’50s – around ’58 I guess – he asked me to take over as Athletic Director. So I became the Athletic Director, basketball coach, and baseball coach at Lewis. Then we had the other sports and then eventually we started the women’s sports program, we had Track & Field starting with Nick Bonacci and Tippy McFadden – guys who were faculty members.
We dropped football. That was General Paul X. English. His biggest contribution – he was supposed to come in and raise big dollars for Bishop Sheil. He didn’t raise a dime. His biggest contribution was – the only kids we had on campus were just several students, some girls, and about 60 football players; that was the campus – about 130 kids. So his biggest contribution was to eliminate the football program. Some of the kids stayed on in school there and played baseball for me. And a few went into other sports. It was in ’57 that we dropped football, before I was Athletic Director.
Br: He stayed on as President for a while after that.
Yes. The one before him was Admiral Grassie. He was sort of a figurehead. He didn’t raise anything. But God love Bishop Sheil. When he would visit campus it was like the Pope coming. Everybody loved him. He had the CYO in Chicago and he started Lewis. I met him only a couple times and he was a close friend of Fr. Brennan. Fr. Brennan was something of a war hero. He had been in the Battle of Bulge. He’d never talk about it, but we all knew he had an excellent military background. But after General English we had a lay president for a short while…
Br: That was James Keating. He was President for about six months before the Brothers came in 1960.
If the Brothers wouldn’t have come, Br. Bernard…it’s the greatest thing that ever happened to Lewis. We didn’t know what to expect. I didn’t know the Brothers. I didn’t have the benefit of a Catholic education. It was all public schools until I went to DePaul. I became a Catholic at DePaul through a Vincentian Father I had for English class. He started talking to me about religion. And then out at Lewis there was a Viatorian, Father [Charles R.] Williams.
Br: Yes, he was Dean of Men and he was followed by Fr. [Harold E. “Hank”] Thompson [also a Viatorian].
Oh, two of the nicest guys in the world. Fr. Hank would go on the basketball trips and we’d play Bridge. Oh, we used to have a good time! Laugh! He would be teaching the basketball players. We had two negro basketball players, Bobby Thayer and Gordon Kendall, on the team. And Fr. Thompson helped Kendall with his French class. They’d be talking French – we’d travel by bus. (We bought a Greyhound bus for a thousand bucks, and we had a fellow named Slim driving the bus.) We’d sit in the back and play Bridge. And Fr. Thompson would be teaching Gordon French: “Parlez vous Francais?” Well, when the grades came out – Gordon flunked…French. So I said to Father, “Fr. Thompson, promise me one thing, you will not teach any of the basketball players any more French.” He was a world-class person. You talk about great guys!
Br: Gordon Kendall came back to Lewis many years later to headed up Campus Security.
Yes. He passed away several years ago. He had worked for the Secret Service; guarded the President of the United States. He died of a heart attack when he was Security Director at Lewis. His daughter was married to Isaiah Thomas, the great basketball player for the Detroit Pistons {and graduate of Christian Brothers’ St. Joseph High School, Westchester, IL}.
Br: Gordie, I’d like to ask you about faculty reactions to the Joliet Diocese announcement in 1960 that Lewis College was to be administered by the Christian Brothers. I understand that some of the faculty felt that their jobs were threatened with a group of religious coming in.
I never heard any bad vibes whatsoever. The ones I was in contact with – Tippy McFadden from the History Department, Nick Bonacci from the Technical School {Aviation} — any of the lay people that I knew, I never heard a negative comment about the Brothers coming to Lewis. And then when the Brothers actually came, it was the greatest thing – I just couldn’t have imagined – what an impressive group of men. Br. Louis [de la Salle Seiler], Br. Leander Paul [McGinnis], Br. Paul French, Br. Raymond [McManaman], Br. Phil [Lynch] – these guys were the second thing to Jesus! I’ve never met any group so intelligent, dedicated, humble – it blew my mind! I was so fortunate because I was working for the Brothers at Lewis now. And I had worked for the Carmelites at Joliet Catholic. When I went to Catholic High there were only three laymen in the school! All the rest were priests and brothers. Now at Lewis, when the Brothers came – Wow! Going to work was not going to work, this was the greatest inspirational experience. And you’d hear the kids talk. And you’d see the compassion and love. The things that I saw at Lewis – it was like a complete change in attitude – about academics, about everything. “The Brothers” – that’s what you’d hear – “The Brothers.”
And I saw the same thing with the Carmelites – that concern. If you couldn’t afford the tuition, they’d find a way. At that time there was money in the Diocese to cover difficulties like that. So no kid was ever denied a Catholic education. I stayed on at Catholic High until ’85. Then when I left…
First, I want to go back to why I left Lewis. The Brothers decided within their own deliberations that they would turn over the presidency of the college to a lay person. In comes Dr. Lester Carr. And he brought another guy with him from the East to be in charge of the finances. His name was Roland Breault. But I loved Lewis, and I loved the Brothers. And then the Brothers gave the reins to lay people. Now I don’t know anything about the inner workings, why it happened, so here we get Lester Carr. Not that I had any disagreements with him, he was very nice to me up front. But here’s an example: When the kids would come back to school in late August, Lester would be gone for a month. That’s when he would take his vacation. When they came back to school, he would be gone. I was not a person to get into the inner workings of what was going on. I was so busy with what I was doing; I was working 13, 14 hours a day coaching and teaching. But I was getting on good authority that they were stealing. The ones running the school were stealing. There were illegal things going on. And so I went to – I don’t recall if I went to Leander Paul – I don’t remember who I went to from the Brothers: “Brother, I don’t know if you know this, but this is what I’m hearing. I want you fellows to know what is being said. I don’t know if it is true or not, but this is what’s going on.” {Br. Leander Paul left Lewis to be Superintendent at Bishop Noll Institute, Hammond, Indiana, in August, 1968. Lester Carr and Roland Breault came to Lewis in the summer of 1971. Br. Paul French served as President of Lewis College from 1968 – 1971.} Well, maybe six months went by. And I’m hearing the same. So I went back. I think maybe it was Br. Paul French, it might have been Br. Paul French: “Brother, I’m near a nervous breakdown.” (At that particular time we were the national champions of baseball, ’74, ’75, ’76. This is going on right then.) I said, “Brother, I can’t be a part of this. Do the Brothers know what these guys are doing? I’m getting this from reliable sources.” So then I told Nick Bonacci and some of the others out there who were my dear friends that I was going to leave Lewis – this was about six to eight months prior to my leaving – I said, “I’m going to leave here; I can’t stay here no more. My system can’t take this; to see this happening to the school.” So anyway, John Orr [President of St. Francis College, Joliet] phoned me at Lewis and invited me to join the staff at St. Francis. He said that they were revamping their athletic department and asked if I would be interested in considering a position there. At the time St. Francis had not yet had an athletic program for women and he knew I had started a women’s program at Lewis. He offered me $17,000 to come to St. Francis. That was 1976. I forget what I was making at Lewis at that particular time. So it was to start a women’s program and take over the basketball, and so on. I said that I didn’t want to take anybody’s job away; if you’re making changes, that’s another thing. So I agreed to come over. I think it was shortly after that that the Brothers resumed the direction of the University.
Br: Well, there was a follow-up lay president. When Lester Carr left in 1976, Br. Vincent Neil Kieffe was appointed interim president for a year. Then Paul Whelan was installed as President and he served until 1981. Following Whelan, Br. Paul French served as interim president for several months. We got a full-time Brother president again in 1982; Br. David Delahanty. The Whelan years were very difficult financially. There was even a short space where they were having trouble making the payroll. Whelan went through a very tough time. It was Br. David who put the school on a sound financial basis. David was the one who set the foundation for the next president, Br. Jim Gaffney. David really re-built Lewis; I think Jim [Gaffney], a great president, is standing on the shoulders of a giant.
Well all those things transpired and I came to St. Francis and we started the new programs over here. In ’95 the Chicago Cubs talked to me about joining their organization. I had met with the general manager who, subsequently, got fired. Larry Hines was his name. They wanted me to run the two A’s and the two AA clubs – four teams and put in a system of baseball that was fundamentally sound with everybody teaching the same way. I was over 65 at the time. I told the people here that I’d like to give it a try. I resigned here as of that spring. We had had a good year; we were in the playoffs. The Cubs fired Hines about a week previous to when I would be starting with them. So when Hines left they brought somebody else in; they weren’t interested in me.
Now my son was coaching at Ripon College [Wisconsin] and he invited me to join him. He had been wanting me to come up there and help him with basketball and run the baseball team. I don’t recall exactly about the salary — $10,000 or there about and health insurance. Got a place to stay and my wife and I went up there. I had planned to stay a year or two. I stayed ten!
Then Dave Laketa from St. Francis contacted me. He wanted to come up and talk. Tony Delgado was retiring. Tony played for me at Lewis and coached with me for years. Dave said, “We want you to come back and be the baseball coach.” I says, “Dave, I’m 79 years old!” “We don’t care about that; we want you to come back.” Then I get a call from Tony Delgado the next day: “Gordie, come on.” “I can’t take this job! Why don’t you come back and help me then.” “No, I’m retiring. I want to travel, Gordie.” So Joan, my wife, said to me, “You know, Gordie, we’ve been gone ten years; it was only supposed to be two. I’d like to go back home.” I said, “OK.” I called Dave and told him I’d come back.
Br: And that’s how you came back to St. Francis. Well, Gordie, just a little reminiscing about some of your most memorable players.
Best players! OK. I think the Number One story would be a funny one. Tom Brennan, a great pitcher for us, graduated in ’75 or there about. At Leo High School in Chicago – that’s the Irish Christian Brothers – he had won one game at Leo High as a pitcher. He played some outfield. Came to Lewis and came out for the team. I thought the guy had a great arm. I taught him how to throw a slider; picked it up right away. And he went on; four years later he was the number one draft choice in the country for the Cleveland Indians.
Ed Spiezio. He transferred in from the U of I; went to Illinois but didn’t play there. I’m not sure why. His mother was sick and he was going back and forth. Then his dad had a fall and had his leg amputated. So Eddie transferred to Lewis – a little closer to home. He led the nation in hitting: home runs, and RBIs for two consecutive years. The first year that he was back we went to the national tournament – nobody knew who Lewis was – it had to be in the early ’60s. Eddie was the Most Valuable Player in the College World Series. We came out of nowhere and finished 3rd. The following year he had the same kind of stats; hit 0.500, drove in all kinds of runs. There was no draft choice at that time but the St. Louis Cardinals picked him right away. We traveled to the NAIA College World Series in St. Joseph, Missouri, in automobiles and afterwards we were getting in the cars to leave and the Cardinals were after him to sign. That was in ’63, the year he graduated. So he was in AAA the following year and was on the cover of Sports Illustrated as the best prospect in baseball. In the ’68 World Series he got a hit as a pinch hitter against the great Mickey Lolich of Detroit. He fouled off nine pitches and then got a base hit. Here’s a Lewis guy in the World Series. I remembered him calling me: “Hey, Gordie. I’ve got two tickets for any World Series game you want.” That’s the kind of guy he is. He played thirteen years in the major leagues.
Then we had a kid out of Coal City, Illinois – Greg Washburn. He only pitched for us one or two years. And he signed with the California Angels. He made the Major Leagues.
We had so many fine players. Another was a pitcher named Tom Dedin. He went on to coach baseball at Lewis, and later at the U of I. The first year we played Illinois they had won the Big Ten Championship the previous two years. Here’s little Lewis; we had about 500 kids in the school at that time. We traveled down there in four or five old cars. We were guaranteed a hundred bucks to go down to play the game at Champaign. Tom Dedin starts, Spiezio plays third. Spiezio hits one that hits the apartment building across the street; Dedin strikes out seventeen! And we beat them 3 – 1.
And on that team we also had Tom Kennedy, who later worked at Lewis in administration. Tom played first base; and he was a great basketball player. He had never played basketball in high school. Came to Lewis to play baseball. He asked to come out for basketball. He was so good and jumped so high and he had a great shot. He went on to try out with the Chicago Stags {currently the Chicago Bulls}. He got to the last cut before he was eliminated. But he played first base. I don’t think he ever made an error.
Tony Delgado was our shortstop. Ray Coughlin, our catcher, is the head of the Mathematics Department at Temple University.
Br: You know he’s writing a book about you.
He’s writing a book. I’m going over some pages for him and I’m overdue on getting them back to him. He has written 17 or 18 books on math. He sends me a book. “Calculus Made Easy” was the first one. I get it and there’s a dedication to me on the first page. After that I didn’t know what he was talking about. We’d be on the road and I’m in the car with two math majors, Ray and Ron Fordonski – Ron’s passed on – greatest kid in the world. “You know, Gordie, there’s no such thing as a straight line.” “Ray, what in the heck are you talking about.” So he goes on to explain that there’s no such thing as a straight line. Now, when I write to him I say, “Ray, is there such a thing as a straight line?” We had more fun on those trips.
That was the team that was in two College World Series. We finished third, and then the following year we had a fellow named Bob Calamari who was from Notre Dame High School in Chicago. Bob threw a 1-0 shutout. He beat every good team that he faced. There was a pitcher named Marty Pattin; he pitched for Eastern Illinois University. He went on to pitch in the Major Leagues {Kansas City Royals}. He threw about 95 mph. And Cal was a sidearm right-hander – great control, slider. The greatest game: nothing up in the 11th. Maybe we had gotten two hits off of him. And Cal was throwing equally as well. Somehow we loaded the bases in the 11th and Tommy Lyons, another Mt. Carmel boy – went on to coach at Mt. Carmel – he came up with the bases loaded and doubled off the fence and got three runs. Cal shut them out in the bottom half; we won 3-0. One of the greatest games I ever saw. Two great pitchers; Pattin pitched in the big leagues; Cal never got there. But he came back for reunions. And he pitched on the College World Series team with Spiezio.
Butch Markelz, from Providence High School, was another fine player. He won the championship game in ’74. In the rotation he ended up having to pitch the final game. He was so zoned in. He won the three championship games; 27 innings, and we won by one run, every game. Remember that $1000 bus I told you about before? We had a kid named Rick Baranak who was a catcher on that team; he was also the bus driver! It was an old Greyhound. Can you imagine a kid driving the team; you couldn’t get away with it now. But money was so tight that we had a tough time getting meal money. We hardly had enough to see us through and then if you’re rained out, somehow you’ve got to come with meal money for the extra days. It was really austere. We never threw a cracked bat away. We couldn’t use them in a game, but if I ever saw a guy swinging an uncracked bat in batting practice – boy, he got it!
A good story on Eddie Spiezio. He was interested in all the old baseballs. We never threw anything away. He’d take them home. He’d take everything out of the ball, he would stuff them with rags and then he would take a big needle and hand-sew every one of those balls. Then he would get kids from his neighborhood who could throw hard. He’d pay them to pitch so he could practice hitting. When we were playing Wheaton College they had a coach named Lee Pfund who had pitched for the Brooklyn Dodgers. We were losing 10 to 6 in the ninth. We got the bases loaded and Spiezio up. He walked Eddie intentionally; walked in a run – wouldn’t pitch to him. That’s how good he was. Our next man lined out to end the game.
Br: Well, Gordie, thank you so much for a fascinating interview.
You’re very welcome. Glad to help out where ever I can. You know, I’ve never met better guys than the Brothers. And when you get to be 84 years old you need to tell people that because I love the Brothers. I can remember walking the campus with Br. Leander Paul back in the early ’60s. As we were walking he said, “You know what I like about you, Gordie? You never walk by a piece of paper on campus without picking it up.” Another fine president was Br. Paul French. Br. Ray McManaman – we still keep in touch. Br. Phil Lynch – sitting down to lunch with him was way better that having lunch with the President of the United States! Being with any Brother that came with that original group was better than being with the President of the United States. Br. Louis de la Salle was awesome. Ray Coughlin was a math major and had Louie for many of his courses. And another kid, Tommy Reiland who caught for me – and I’ll finish with this one – now he’s Dr. Tom Reiland of North Carolina University, he is one of the foremost mathematicians in the country. He was taught by Br. Louis. When I think back to – I call them the original Celtics – there just wasn’t better group of guys. And then later there was Br. Leo [Forgette]. He’d play golf with one club! It was adjustable; and he could play – really hit the ball. He and Br. Ray would travel with us to the College Baseball World Series.
Br: Thanks again, Gordie, thanks very much. You put a lot of time into this and I appreciate it.
Don’t mention it. Those 24 years at Lewis were special years. Lewis is special to me and these years here at St. Francis have been great, too. I came over here and we had the Franciscan nuns. So in my career I had the Carmelite Fathers, the Christian Brothers, and Franciscan Sisters. I was the luckiest guy in the world.
Braidwood Beginnings 